Just Wonderin'....

[Deleted]

I spend a lotta time at Kustomrama for inspiration, & in looking at the vintage lowriders from the 60s, there's obviously a massive amount of crossover between customs of the 60s & the lowriders of the same era, especially from California. Not just GM products either, the 61 Ford seemed a popular subject as well, & the first cars with hydraulics often had Cragars or Sovereigns, Bellflowers, as well as custom paint jobs & interiors, & were considered customs in that era.

So, my question is this; would a 60s lowrider like those be considered Trakable? It's not that I have a project I'm working on, or even in mind, it's just curiosity.

If you're not up on the cars I speak of, check out Kustomrama. There's a gorgeous 66/67 Riviera owned by Howard Gribble, (who also had a beautiful 61 Ford & a 64 Impala), a 66 Caprice & others that we'd call lowriders today, but that were considered customs back then.

If they're not correct for here that doesn't bother me, but, given their crossover history with customs back then, I do wonder why.

[skip]

Mark, I think you’re correct that they are a “crossover” custom. Since they meet the timeframe for TRAK that they should be included here. If Rodder’s Journal included them, which they did a few times, I have the issues to prove it, then they are Traditional Customs.

The Traditional California Low-Rider in my mind is just a sub-genre or a continuation of the fifties Customs such as the Merc’s, ‘49 - ‘51 Ford Shoeboxes, 50’s Buicks50’s/60’s Mopars, and anything else the better custom shops such as Valley Custom was building at the time. The formula for the 60’s California Low-Rider is much the same as the 50’s California Custom, Lower the car, make it appear thinner through the belt line, top chop, paint, wheels and tires that enhances the car’s looks. The early 60’s California Low-Riders were typically built using body styles that Detroit had already thinned through the belt line. Impalas, Square Birds, Fairlanes,,, Cars that merely needed a “Shave and a Haircut” to make them look great, lower it and add wheels and tires and it’s owner had a nice little Kustom they could drive while saving up for paint. Pretty much no different than the fifties and sixties main-line Custom cars, isn’t it?

[Deleted]

Skip, that's pretty much my take on it as well. Even the early ones from that era with wire wheels fit, as they used aftermarket wires based more on the traditional 50's Buicks & Mopars than the later Dayton wire wheels.

[mack2856]

Agreed the small Dayton wheels take them out of traditional rod and customs to the lowrider realm which might not fit in here, just saying.

[41chevy]

Low with Hydraulics go to these first two cars both built in 1958.
Jim Logue's 1954 Ford call the Fabulous X54. So to make it go low.” Jim thought of hydraulics like the 1955 Citroen used. “I didn’t have no money, so I used second-hand hydraulic parts from Palley Supply Company.” Palley’s was a war surplus store that sold hydraulic parts. “They had books on it, catalogs on how much, how big, how much stroke, and all this. I couldn’t buy hydraulic cylinders that would stick out the hood, so I had to do measuring and buying things they had that worked. I didn’t know what the catalog numbers were or anything, I just bought stuff I knew that I needed, pumps and everything.”

Ron Aguirre Corvette, the X-Sonic. After visiting a friends body shop seeing a bodyman pushing a dent out with a hydraulic Port-A-Power tool, Ron started to think. He looked at the ram and instantly got the idea to put this unit between the spring and frame to lift his car. Ron explained the idea to his dad Louie, who was a welder by trade. Louie started to make the cups Ron had designed to hold the rams. Ron had hoses made that would extend into the car, and he set the hand pump on the hump between the seats. Within three months after Ron had bought the car, he had installed the first of what was to be many versions of a hydraulic system in the car.

Albert Seeno's 1963 Pontiac built by Gene Windfield is credited with Low Riders going mainstream, when he entered it in the 1963 Oakland Roadster Show and got a few awards.

[Mr. Metallic]

Rodburner (aka Bob Black, the originator)

Care to weigh in on this?

[chepp]

I think that it is correct for the TRAK in Miniatures group to exclude low rider models. It's not that they are "bad" in some way, it's that they are a style that branched off from traditional customs into a different look. It's always difficult to draw a line, especially in the early days when some customizing features that later became almost a requirement on low riders were used on traditional customs. So, even though it's not my decision, I'll suggest that models with these spotting features not be considered as TRAKable:
1. Lowering via these means:
Small wheels/tires, such as 13" wheels.
Hydraulic- or air-assisted suspensions. I know, there was a cross-over period when some TRAK-acceptable customs used these, so in just those cases they would be OK (but not with "laying frame" capability). We also know that some Cadillac and Lincoln cars with factory production air springs were modified as TRAK-acceptable customs so it's a judgement call on the part of the model builder.
2. Welded chain steering wheels and license plate frames.
3. Chromed body parts. There was a time when a low rider "thing" was to plate some or all removable sheet metal parts such as the cowl, fuel tank door and so on.
4. Bellflower-style exhaust pipes.
5. Dayton-style wire wheels.
6. Gold-plated wheels.
7. Engraved decoration.

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2022 11:14:02 GMT -5 chepp said:

I think that it is correct for the TRAK in Miniatures group to exclude low rider models. It's not that they are "bad" in some way, it's that they are a style that branched off from traditional customs into a different look. It's always difficult to draw a line, especially in the early days when some customizing features that later became almost a requirement on low riders were used on traditional customs. So, even though it's not my decision, I'll suggest that models with these spotting features not be considered as TRAKable:
1. Lowering via these means:
Small wheels/tires, such as 13" wheels.
Hydraulic- or air-assisted suspensions. I know, there was a cross-over period when some TRAK-acceptable customs used these, so in just those cases they would be OK (but not with "laying frame" capability). We also know that some Cadillac and Lincoln cars with factory production air springs were modified as TRAK-acceptable customs so it's a judgement call on the part of the model builder.
2. Welded chain steering wheels and license plate frames.
3. Chromed body parts. There was a time when a low rider "thing" was to plate some or all removable sheet metal parts such as the cowl, fuel tank door and so on.
4. Bellflower-style exhaust pipes.
5. Dayton-style wire wheels.
6. Gold-plated wheels.
7. Engraved decoration.

Most all those tings came about after the era we're discussing, & thus should have no bearing on the topic at hand. Bellflower pipes were a popular custom accessory before any lowriders were built as custom & are readily accepted here. The gold plated wheels, chain steering wheel, & Dayton wires, (which I made sure to mention), etc, all come well after our era. None of us are saying that those examples you cited fit the criteria here.

Here's some Kustomorama links to illustrate my point:

kustomrama.com/wiki/1965_Chevrolet

kustomrama.com/wiki/1969_Chevrolet

kustomrama.com/wiki/1966_Chevrolet

kustomrama.com/wiki/1964_Chevrolet

Howard Gribble is considered a king among lowerider fans. And yet, his 1st "lowrider" predates both the name & the movement, a 1961 Ford:

kustomrama.com/wiki/Howard_Gribble%27s_1961_Ford

Looking at it, it certainly fits into the custom section as much as it does a lowrider, if not more.

A 1960 Ford dropped & dragging:

kustomrama.com/wiki/Mike_Perello%27s_1960_Ford

That one was customized in 1964.

Considering that the term "lowrider" didn't even come into vogue until circa 1969, these would all have been considered customs of the era we're discussing.

[41chevy]

Tats Gotanda's 1959 Chevrolet, called the Buddha Buggy was built in 1960 by Bill Hines with interior parts made by Bob Hirohata and modified in 1961 /2 by Bill Hines to have hydraulic suspension , 8.5" travel but NOT less than 6" ground clearance. The interior Bill Hines had Ed Martinez design and build in 1962. It road on early 50's Buick Skylark wire wheels. Bill also added Chrome inner wheelwell panels to give a finished look when raised. The Hines build is still considered a bench mark today.
Bellflower exhaust goes back at least to 1962 /63 as seen on Jim Doos' 1958 Impala

kustomrama.com/wiki/Tats_Gotanda%27s_1959_Chevrolet

kustomrama.com/wiki/Jim_Doss%27_1958_Chevrolet

[chepp]

I agree with Mark and Paul's comments. The customizing of cars such as Gribble's '61 Ford, Perello's '60 Ford, Gotanda's '59 Chevy and Doss' '58 Chevy all look TRAKable to me. As I wrote, "it's always difficult to draw a line." I shouldn't have included Bellflower exhausts. I can't prove it, but having grown up as a "car kid" in Los Angeles suburbs I'm sure some, if not most, of the items I mentioned were seen before the TRAK cutoff date of 1969. Daytons, or 100 spoke wheels, were later. One lowrider thing that my buddies and me made fun of back in the mid-to-late '60s were dingle balls. I don't know if they would be TRAKable.

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2022 14:46:53 GMT -5 chepp said:

I agree with Mark and Paul's comments. The customizing of cars such as Gribble's '61 Ford, Perello's '60 Ford, Gotanda's '59 Chevy and Doss' '58 Chevy all look TRAKable to me. As I wrote, "it's always difficult to draw a line." I shouldn't have included Bellflower exhausts. I can't prove it, but having grown up as a "car kid" in Los Angeles suburbs I'm sure some, if not most, of the items I mentioned were seen before the TRAK cutoff date of 1969. Daytons, or 100 spoke wheels, were later. One lowrider thing that my buddies and me made fun of back in the mid-to-late '60s were dingle balls. I don't know if they would be TRAKable.

Yeah, that's a big reason why I brought the topic up. There's certainly some major overlap between the two styles, & one was certainly influenced by the other, even if it morphed into something else in many ways over the years. I'm really curious how to properly draw the line myself, & if in the overall history of customs/kustoms, early lowriders are Trakable. Shaved emblems, door handles, pinner WWs, custom paint, Astros, Cragars & Sovereigns, & an altered stance all scream "custom" to me just as much as "lowrider", if the car & components are era correct.

[RodBurNeR]

yes 60's lowrider are ok here. there are certain things in the guidelines that keep people straight on what's TRaKable.

no straight lace wire wheels

no color changing paints/marble paint or tribal flames etc.

so there is a fine line in there , yes lowriders of the vintage are acceptable.

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2022 23:43:45 GMT -5 RodBurNeR said:

yes 60's lowrider are ok here. there are certain things in the guidelines that keep people straight on what's TRaKable.

no straight lace wire wheels

no color changing paints/marble paint or tribal flames etc.

so there is a fine line in there , yes lowriders of the vintage are acceptable.

Thanks Bob! I had a feeling that within the guidelines they were Trakable, based on what I was seeing at Kustomrama. I did want to be sure however, thus my post.

Now for what triggered my initial post; I was fooling around with a 61 Ranchero kit the other day, looking at possibly building a 60s custom from it. I was trying out some Pegasus rims on it, the Sovereigns & the Mini T's, both with pinner WW tires. That got me to thinking about some of the vintage customs on Kustomrama, & the custom lowriders on the site. One thought lead to another, & from there I started wondering where they fit in here, if they did.

I know we all have our own personal likes/dislikes & biases regarding different things, but as I always try to do, I was looking merely at the historical context as to their Trakablity.

[mack2856]

Fading out to War's Low-Ride-er, one of my favorite tunes...

[lo51merc]

Guess what song is on in my head right now. And prolly until I go to sleep tonight too.

Gary