'41 Plymouth Gasser Barn Find - Patina and TRaKability

[Bernard Kron]

Having participated in a recent Is This TRaKable? regarding a patina'd model I thought it only right that I ask regarding this project I recently started. I've never done a rusted model before. The upcoming NNL West in early March has a aRt Rod category and I thought I'd build something for that. This model is not it! But I started it to gain experience with weathering powders and the table salt corrosion technique. From a strict TRaKability perspective regarding the provenance of the parts I believe there will be no issues. The motor is the kit inline 6 with a finned aluminum head courtesy of The Parts Box (believe it or not such a part exists...). I'll be building a 3-carb manifold and straight exhausts. The tires are AMT kit tires as are the front wheels. The front axle is the gasser piece from the AMT '32 Ford Phaeton. Virtually all the other parts come from the kit. The car will have weathered grill, lights and bumpers to gain experience weathering chrome.

I could make up a back story but I neglected to apply decals during the rusting process. And in any case that's not the point. My inquiry is strictly based on the "vibe" or style of the model. It's a typical rusty gasser as we have seen countless times on the model car forums. So... Is It TRaKable? The full-on aRt Rod I'll be building (Buick Straight 8, '29 Ford RPU bucket, Kelsey Hayes wire wheels, super low z'd frame, etc.) will most definitely not be TRaKable!

[spex84]

I don't feel like patina should be an "insta-fail" on TRAK, especially if all the parts and overall style are period correct.

It does potentially provide fuel to builders who might say "well, I saw a rusty rod on here, so my build should be fine".

A few years back I built a '29 roadster with a rusty frame and body, red wheels, z'd frame, quarter-elliptical front suspension, a 21-stud flathead with stock air cleaner...and on paper that might sound like a traditional rod with some weathering. But it was absolutely definitely of the rodent variety, especially after I added door lettering in gothic text.

I dunno...if you end up not posting it here, hopefully it will be viewable elsewhere. I want to see your rodent build too!

[jbailey]

I'm not going to say whether or not it's TRaK-able, but I sure would like to know the techniques you used to weather it so well.

[53suburban]

As long as it has period correct parts and is a "barn find" I don't personally see any problem with it being Trakable. Nice weathering job.

[Johnny]

I'd say yes, it's not a "Rat Rod" to me, just an 'ol gasser that has been abandoned for some time. I too have the Parts Box alu head for future use, nice piece. I want to see more!!

[gmckid]

I would say yes. In the past I have incorporated weathering into a lot of my builds and never had an issue with posting them here. As long as the parts used, and the build style is appropriate I say go for it. Building something 50 or 60 years ago, and then neglecting it in a barn for several decades shouldnt automatically make it a rat rod.

Great job on the weathering by the way.

[draggon]

I'd say perhaps the level of "patina" could be a determining factor. Worn, faded paint with maybe a just a little amount of rust in appropriate areas would be nice. A lot of rust and flaked off paint, like a "field car" would kill it IMHO. Go gentle with the salt technique, I know you've seen builds that take it too far. Something like the is what I'm thinking is good.

[Bernard Kron]

Thanks for the input so far, guys. I felt this would be a worthwhile discussion. I've always felt that the exaggerated "deep rust" look is as much the result of a lack of imagination and of technical control on the part of the builder as anything, whether your talking in scale or in 1:1. I believe it "drove" the style of what many believe is now a aRt Rod. In this sense it's pretty much guaranteed to be modern. I did the rust job after researching weathering techniques on line and on YouTube. In particular I found the military modelers quite helpful, as well as the excellent videos produced by Virgil Suárez (Dr. Cranky). In his videos the good Doctor points out that you will probably put down too much rust in your first attempt but to not let that worry you. It's how you learn the limits and extent of the techniques. I found this very much to be the case.

Glenn, your example would be a real technical challenge to execute, especially since it's virtually guaranteed to be rust-free, at least in the bodywork! It would be cool to do since not only would you have to fade the paint, but stress and age the panels, too. Whew! Talk about hard to do!

[spex84]

Bernard--if you happen to want to create a weathered but not full-on rusty finish, it can work to use Sophisticated Finishes rust, but wipe it on over a red-oxide paint layer,and then wipe most of it off. Once treated with the 2nd half of the rust mixture (which I think is just a weak acid/salt or something), it will oxidize without getting 3D and chunky.

Using chalk can look very realistic too. I'd like to know more about this build! //the photos seem to be down right now, but hopefully that won't last long.

[Plowboy]

Rusting/weathering a model is very tricky. Easy to go too far or not far enough. I fall into the latter category about every time. But, to me, too much is just TOO much. IMO, there has to be a balance between the amount of rust and the amount of paint left. Your Plymouth has a fairly good balance. But, a touch on the heavy side for a barn find. For a first attempt, you did very well! Much better than my attempts at it. No comment on the TRaKability of it. However it's judged, I hope to see the finished product!

[Bernard Kron]

Thanks again. I'll probably wait for more discussion on TRaKability before I go ahead with a build thread on this car here. However I do think that a discussion on weathering techniques in general might be in order, since I'm impressed with the realism that modelers can achieve using them, especially in moderation.

The chassis, engine compartment panels and interior have now been weathered as well. I managed to come up with smaller, more accented rust areas and I am familiarizing myself with some wash techniques that I found are popular with military modelers. I'm a pure automobile modeler with zero experience in other disciplines so this a Strange New World for me.

A note about "weathering powders". The ones I am using I have surmised are probably by Bragdon Enterprises. (see www.bragdonent.com/smpic/item4.htm ) They were given to me by my friend Raul Perez some 8 years ago when I was just starting modeling again. Raul is an enthusiastic railroad modeler in his other life and I think he was hoping I would get the weathering bug. He also has done some very fine armor subjects and dioramas. In any case I used them very occasionally in the period since but now have decided to take them seriously. Raul told me he sent me some small amounts taken from larger, tall, rectangular containers so that's why I think they may be Bragdon products. Raul can't remember the brand but the quantity and packaging are fairly unique. They are very highly regarded on the railroad side of things. Having used them more seriously now, I can see why. They have this to say about their products:

This weathering powder will adhere to any non-glossy surface. It is NOT chalk. One quick step gives a very realistic rusty, dusty or sooty surface - instantly. No drying or curing is necessary. Use sparingly; a little goes a long way. This product is made from real rust and other weathering agents that have been ball milled to a particle size over 100 times finer than chalk and blended with a pressure sensitive, dry adhesive. Self adhesive to most surfaces.

I have found that the self-adhesive qualities are not absolutely fool proff, but it can be surprisingly effective in small amounts on smaller areas. On larger areas it tends to wear off. I have been experimenting with light dustings of DullCote to secure larger areas and it's a technique that may hold promise.

   

At any rate, I suspect that "weathering powders" are in fact raw pigment powders of the sort you can buy in serious art supply stores. They are used by fine artists to make their own paints. I have some experience with these from when we renovated the main floor of our house a few years back and did some accent walls in "lime paint", which is the ancient raw paint used throughout the world that you see on stucco walls. Un-tinted it's call whitewash. We used the pigment powders to mix our own colors. I suspect that weathering powders are very finely ground pigment powders, the extreme fineness improving their adherence as a result of static electricity and ambient air pressure. I only mention this because if I'm right this allows for a greater range of colors and a somewhat lower price than the hobby store items. The dry adhesive aspect of the Bragdon system (and probably others such as Tamiya, AIM Products, Vallejo, etc.) is something to consider, however. I'll be trying both pigments and pastels chalks to see how they work.

[draggon]

That's beautiful B, did you have those pics up the other day? I saw your post at that other place but was unable to see your pictures.

I was using that Kellison as a sort of reference point....that being said, I love your weathering job. Fitting the guidelines here exactly or not, I want to see more!

[Bernard Kron]

Thanks Glenn. Our posts crossed... Yeah, Photobucket was down all of yesterday. See my comments above about "moderation". I think it's probably the key to avoiding the aRt Rod/Diorama/Rustbucket clichés.

[robtrat]

... hey watch it there B, I thoroughly resemble that remark.



... just wrapping up the 1st week of the season here... love what your doing ....Raul was the guy that taught mre to learn from the railroad guys....will have some thoughts when I catch my breath....looks like I'll see you all this year at NNL West.

[Bernard Kron]

Jan 30, 2016 15:46:11 GMT -5 robtrat said:

... hey watch it there B, I thoroughly resemble that remark.



... just wrapping up the 1st week of the season here... love what your doing ....Raul was the guy that taught mre to learn from the railroad guys....will have some thoughts when I catch my breath....looks like I'll see you all this year at NNL West.

Always a pleasure to hang with you at the NNL Rob't. And your "patina-mobiles" are awesome and hardly clichéd. They are a treat to see each year.