Tunnel Rams Revisited

[dodgefever]

Since the earlier threads are locked, I thought I'd open up a new discussion. After some digging on the HAMB, I found mention of one Ralph Ridgeway. In 1965, he mounted a pair of AFB carbs on a modified Corvette FI manifold:



He began marketing his own cast version in 1968, the Ridge Runner:



Edelbrock launched the TR-1 in 1968:

[ChrisV]

Here are the links for some of the previous threads:

Tunnel Rams 1
Tunnel Rams 2

[krassandbernie]

Tell me again why the general consensus was to axe the '63 Corvette that was in the MOM poll?! It just proves that we're basing these decisions off of a 'vibe' we get, or what we think we remember; rather then actual reference material and facts. The only difference between that '63 Corvette and Ralph Ridgeway's '55 Chevy is the body. And Ralph's '55 had a rather simplistic look to it as far as a drag car goes; much like this Vette had. Believe it or not, I would not be arguing this point had it been a '67 Chevelle (with or without a tunnel ram style manifold) that was posted instead of the Vette.

btw, I guarantee there was some kid in 1968 building a model of some hot rod/drag car with a tunnel ram! And, if someone were to post photos of such a survivor model on here it might throw some back on their heels! LOL!

[53suburban]

Dec 28, 2017 10:51:39 GMT -5 krassandbernie said:

btw, I guarantee there was some kid in 1968 building a model of some hot rod/drag car with a tunnel ram! And, if someone were to post photos of such a survivor model on here it might throw some back on their heels! LOL!

But would it have been "traditional" back in 1968? Just sayin'

[reedeezel]

Thanks for that response, Ed. It got me thinking about old timers with hazy memories and how things were back in the old days. There may be a fine line between fact and a "vibe", and you all know the old joke about opinions. A point made was about model cars built during specific time periods. A look at what was entered in model shows back then can reveal some radical ideas not bound by availability of parts at the speed shop or in the "real" 1/1 world. I guess this board is about replicating "real" cars, so many models built during the TRAK time frame wouldn't be considered TRAKable. I'm not suggesting changing things here, just airing a thought or two.

[krassandbernie]

Dec 28, 2017 11:36:01 GMT -5 reedeezel said:

Thanks for that response, Ed. It got me thinking about old timers with hazy memories and how things were back in the old days. There may be a fine line between fact and a "vibe", and you all know the old joke about opinions. A point made was about model cars built during specific time periods. A look at what was entered in model shows back then can reveal some radical ideas not bound by availability of parts at the speed shop or in the "real" 1/1 world. I guess this board is about replicating "real" cars, so many models built during the TRAK time frame wouldn't be considered TRAKable. I'm not suggesting changing things here, just airing a thought or two.

I suppose that is partly what I was getting at as well. I feel that some would rather us be limited in our imaginations despite being within the guidelines of the forum's rules. If I want to build a model of a chopped '40 Ford coupe that has the most 'far out' speed equipment available in 1968 why is that a problem?! Traditional doesn't mean that it had to be popular and liked (or used) by everyone at that time. When someone builds a traditional hot rod it is defined by the parts that make up the car......meaning all of the parts were around and could be sourced from that particular time period. I grew up around hot rods, gassers, drag cars, etc; and not once did someone say a car was not traditional because a vintage part on the car was not popular during the time frame the car was built. I've seen many odd ball or better yet, rare speed parts show up on traditional built hot rods and drag cars. That certainly does not make them any less traditional. That is just screwed up logic there. There were guys with money back then; and a racer could have (and typically did) throw some used parts off of his race car onto his 'street car' or hot rod back in the day......I know because I've hung out with many of the great gasser guys of the '60's when I helped race the Hill Bros '33 Willys coupe and then build and race the Red Baron II Willys pickup. I even stayed over at Pete Hill's home before he passed away; and listened to many of his stories. The man had a very sharp mind too. I guess my point is that I am not pulling this stuff out of thin air! LOL!

[krassandbernie]

Dec 28, 2017 11:36:01 GMT -5 reedeezel said:

Thanks for that response, Ed. It got me thinking about old timers with hazy memories and how things were back in the old days. There may be a fine line between fact and a "vibe", and you all know the old joke about opinions. A point made was about model cars built during specific time periods. A look at what was entered in model shows back then can reveal some radical ideas not bound by availability of parts at the speed shop or in the "real" 1/1 world. I guess this board is about replicating "real" cars, so many models built during the TRAK time frame wouldn't be considered TRAKable. I'm not suggesting changing things here, just airing a thought or two.

Since the model car industry modeled their kits (and parts) after 1:1 parts, what post 1969 parts could a kid in 1967 (for example) come up with?! Anything at his disposal would have to be current for the year he was currently building the model in.......or obviously older. Or, he would have to scratch build the part.....like this tunnel ram after seeing it on Ralph Ridgeway's '55 Chevy in a magazine or at the track. The only thing I can think of to make your point is a kid putting a blower on top of another blower, radical body mods and lowering the stance so much that it would not work properly if it were real. But, we're talking about period correct or traditional speed parts here. If someone were to build a replica of Ralph Ridgeway's '55 Chevy and post it up here with a photo of the real car would there be a throw down; and members saying it was somehow untraditional (or period correct) because it gave them a '70's vibe?! LOL!

[ChrisV]

Dec 28, 2017 10:51:39 GMT -5 krassandbernie said:

Tell me again why the general consensus was to axe the '63 Corvette that was in the MOM poll?! It just proves that we're basing these decisions off of a 'vibe' we get, or what we think we remember; rather then actual reference material and facts. The only difference between that '63 Corvette and Ralph Ridgeway's '55 Chevy is the body. And Ralph's '55 had a rather simplistic look to it as far as a drag car goes; much like this Vette had. Believe it or not, I would not be arguing this point had it been a '67 Chevelle (with or without a tunnel ram style manifold) that was posted instead of the Vette.

btw, I guarantee there was some kid in 1968 building a model of some hot rod/drag car with a tunnel ram! And, if someone were to post photos of such a survivor model on here it might throw some back on their heels! LOL!

Ed, to answer your question: As nice as it was, the candy paint, Cragar mags, tunnel ram intake and dual quads gave the 'Vette a very distinct seventies' Street Machine look.
Obviously the concept of "TRaK'ability" goes beyond, whether the parts were available before the cut-off year or not - It's a matter of the context, in which they're used. A "Traditional" rod or kustom is not just any random combination of vintage show- and/or go-parts, but a careful selection of parts, techniques, and styling cues meant to capture the vibe of a particular era in automotive history.

I think we can all agree, that hopped up sixties' muscle cars generally fall outside the scope of TRaK.

The "problem" in distinguishing between traditional and non-traditional builds (at least in our sense of the word) is, that the late sixties' Street Machines evolved seamlessly into early seventies' Street Machines. Thus you're easily able to build a model with a very distinct seventies' vibe using only parts which were already available in the sixties.

Though tunnel ram intakes were indisputably available and to some extent used on big $$$ drag cars (and fabricated by creative race car builders) by the late sixties, it wasn't until the early seventies, they became commonly available and gained immense popularity among the Street Machine crowd.

As such, I think, that accepting the car would have defied the purpose of our cut-off year.

Just my $ 0.02

[krassandbernie]

Point taken Chris........and there's no hard feelings here despite how gruff I may come off at times! LOL!

That being said, I could more easily see this Vette as you describe it had it had street tires on it. Then it would definitely feel a bit closer to a '70's build. But, the slicks say 'race car' to me....not '70's street freak. I think if the rear wheel wheels had been radiused and it had sponsor decals, and perhaps a name on the door it would have fit in perfectly with a late '60's drag car; and not that blurred '70's street freak area.

[Bernard Kron]

As I said in the Ron's original polling post, what clinched the non-TRaKability for me was the exposed induction with the polished carbs and wide-mouth scoops. As well as the Edelbrock TR-1 I mentioned that Weiand promoted a hi-rise in '68. I knew about the Ridge Runner but wasn't sure how aggressively it was marketed. In any case I've always felt that the equipment date thing is far less important, and kind of a cop-out, than the whole style/vibe/era aesthetic discipline. These discussions always evolve around late 60's transition issues. I have found that perusing enough 60's era car shows will find precursors to most of the showcar, hopped up muscle cars, and street rod styles so prevalent in the 70's. When it comes to situations like the M.O.M., it is all kind of moot because if the car is unsuitable to the majority of members, as Ron's poll showed in this instance, then it will get passed over in any case. But I disagree with whoever posted (was it Ed - I'm too lazy to read back...) that realism in representation of the Traditional Idiom is the keystone to TRaK. Indeed I regret that some of the more "fantastic" build styles that used to characterize much of what was posted here seem to have faded (i.e. some of our earlier Scandinavian members excelled in this sort of thing). But when 70's styles "leak" into the day-to-day discourse of the site then we're in trouble - OR perhaps it becomes time to acknowledge that Traditional itself is effected by the March of Time and that 70's styles have become part of The Tradition. Younger modelers in particular have a far greater affinity to door slammer drag subjects and muscle cars and it shows in issues like this discussion and in the MOM voting each month.

[krassandbernie]

Dec 28, 2017 17:04:32 GMT -5 Bernard Kron said:

As I said in the Ron's original polling post, what clinched the non-TRaKability for me was the exposed induction with the polished carbs and wide-mouth scoops. As well as the Edelbrock TR-1 I mentioned that Weiand promoted a hi-rise in '68. I knew about the Ridge Runner but wasn't sure how aggressively it was marketed. In any case I've always felt that the equipment date thing is far less important, and kind of a cop-out, than the whole style/vibe/era aesthetic discipline. These discussions always evolve around late 60's transition issues. I have found that perusing enough 60's era car shows will find precursors to most of the showcar, hopped up muscle cars, and street rod styles so prevalent in the 70's. When it comes to situations like the M.O.M., it is all kind of moot because if the car is unsuitable to the majority of members, as Ron's poll showed in this instance, then it will get passed over in any case. But I disagree with whoever posted (was it Ed - I'm too lazy to read back...) that realism in representation of the Traditional Idiom is the keystone to TRaK. Indeed I regret that some of the more "fantastic" build styles that used to characterize much of what was posted here seem to have faded (i.e. some of our earlier Scandinavian members excelled in this sort of thing). But when 70's styles "leak" into the day-to-day discourse of the site then we're in trouble - OR perhaps it becomes time to acknowledge that Traditional itself is effected by the March of Time and that 70's styles have become part of The Tradition. Younger modelers in particular have a far greater affinity to door slammer drag subjects and muscle cars and it shows in issues like this discussion and in the MOM voting each month.

I don't recall making a statement to that affect; but I do see your point of view on the matter. There is a fine line that we don't want carried away with to the point that '70's style builds are leaking in.......as you put it. I just see it a bit unfair (for lack of a better term) to exterminate builds that do actually fit into the guide lines of the forum because they are close to this transition period at the end of the decade; which someone else pointed out earlier as being a smooth seamless transition at that.

[Plowboy]

I think the Corvette and the tunnel ram intakes themselves fall into the " It could have been done. But, it wasn't done enough to be considered traditional " category. To me, the Corvette definitely had the '70s look to it. Like Bernard, the polished intake, carbs and breathers are what put it in the '70s.