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Post by ddlova on Nov 14, 2009 9:31:52 GMT -5
i know this may have been discussed before but i'm feeling the need to ask again. the Revell '32 Ford kits have a late model 302 and AOD automatic transmission from the 80's. i think we all know that already right?
the question i have is what makes this engine and trans unTRaKable? i know that the general rule is if it's "late model" it has to look pre-'69. the Ford Motorsport valve covers arent pre-'69, but honestly i don't hate on them, they are chromed stamped steel style. the new 5-window kit includes some nice ball milled billet style and billet is a big no no here, but i see some showing up. what about the belts and accessory drive? the electric fan i already know to hide if it's used.
do we need to set a list of rules regarding this engine?
Dave
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Post by RodBurNeR on Nov 14, 2009 11:15:12 GMT -5
Thought it would be nice to do so, I have excused the engine, tranny, electric fan etc from this kit because that's all some of the issues came with. Bob Dudek even machined a limited quantity of valve covers for the engine with "TRaK" engraved on them, so it's just kinda like a "treat" to let that stuff slide on this particular car. I do agree with you though on what you are getting at.
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Post by ddlova on Nov 14, 2009 12:13:54 GMT -5
i thought this could be an open discussion to find out maybe what you guys opinions are here and hopefully establish a "standard" or rule from that discussion. an open debate that we can take the information from and use.
Bob has said before that if a builder just has that engine to use then it's passable and okay. i agree with him on that but think there are a few issues. the 302 and AOD as they are in the 3-window coupe, sedan and the roadster are in my opinion useable right out of the box. the Speedwagon kit isn't even a TRaKable car in my opinion and neither is it's modern fuel injection set-up. the new 5-window has the same basic engine but now includes the Speedwagon's fuel injection and some billet style valve covers. the valve covers are nice and kind of look like finned aluminum but arent, they are a ball milled billet aluminum style.
the thing for me here with this engine is to make it look like a pre-69 Ford small-block and use what could have been available at that time. were serpentine belt systems and accessory drives available then? no, but the kit parts don't look really all that modern and A/C was available on cars then. using intake manifold style that was available before '69 is pretty easy. the single 4-barrel was very common and there are some other intakes that are easy to find that would work nicely too. valve covers are an easy swap as well.
Dave
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Post by flathead51 on Nov 15, 2009 12:18:30 GMT -5
Sounds like its a good time to bring up this build of mine... Its built box stock with the exception of the wheels. I think they are from the lil coffin. This was the first build I did getting back into the hobby and TRAK was just a gleam in Bobs eye at the time. I have never shown it here because of the 302 and the steering wheel, even though its TRAK styling. I don't want to go do an engine drop in it because it holds some history with me. This kit got me back into it.  Are these the kind of models we want to see? or never see because of a kits shortage of parts to use. |
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Post by HotRodTom on Nov 18, 2009 20:41:21 GMT -5
Bob and Dave stated it pretty well: If it is the ONLY mill you got, then use it. That is plain. In the Revell Duece 5-window, their is another mill, but you might not want to run a flattie.
I feel (I know, DANGEROUS!!!!) that if you at least make an EFFORT to build the mill in the spirit and style of this board, I.E., Traditional, then it is passable. I know that I have commented on another duece build about the AOD. I NEVER mean to degrade or bash another builders work. That is not and has not ever been my style.
If you are a scratchbuilder, then these points are rather mute. However, for those that do not or may not be a "Uberbuilder", then use what you have. As I stated, as long as it fits the overall "feel" of the forum.
I generally discard the Revell SBF because of the above mentioned items of valve covers, fuel injection only and AOD. I have in my arsenal the capacity to scratchbuild an intake and valve covers and tranny pans... I just rarely use the 302 mill.
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Post by geezerman on Nov 21, 2009 6:51:28 GMT -5
Probably well known to regulars here.
I'll go to the DPMCC proboard forum to build what I want, with what I have.
But I'll still hang out here.
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Post by ddlova on Nov 21, 2009 22:28:18 GMT -5
the AOD automatic transmission and double sump Mustang oil pan don't bother me. unless someone is showing the bottomside details of the car who would know anyway? it's the part that you can see, the top side of the engine. obviously, is there any question? the modern fuel injection isn't okay here. it's some of the other details that i just want to be clear about whether or not they are acceptable.
the belt system and accessory drive. it's a modern serpentine style, but it doesn't really look all that modern, mostly it looks like any other kit's crappy molded belts. it does have A/C but cars did have A/C back in the 50's. maybe not too many hot rods, but i'm sure someone did it or tried it.
the Ford Motorsport valve covers. these don't bother me in the slightest. was Ford Motorsport around pre-'69? nope, but some form of a Ford "racing" division probably was. since they are a stamped chromed steel style i think they are acceptable.
the ball-milled billet style valve covers. these are in the "new" 5-window kit as an option. clearly a billet aluminum style valve cover i don't think these should be acceptable. they are very nice, but this is clearly a style of the 90's to current times, not something from 1969 or earlier. do they look like finned aluminum? in my opinion, no not at all. the Cobra finned aluminum style from the 60's Mustangs are TRaKable though.
the single 4-barrel intake included with the kits is an easy one. it could have been nice to see some options there. Replicas and Miniatures company of Maryland has a very nice 2-4 intake for this engine. there were also intakes available in the 60's that would be cool to see and acceptable. cross-rams, the "Cobra" style using 4 Weber's, Hilborn style injection, 4-71 superchargers, maybe even some 3-duece intakes.
headers. the kit supplied headers are fine, that style has been around since the 60's. they do benefit greatly by adding flanges to them where they attach to the heads. the only tubular style i think isn't acceptable is the "Shorty" style like used on late model Mustangs. seeing someone use stock manifolds would be a nice change. ;D
Dave
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