Is this TRaK-able? ASK HERE

[noname]

Thanks Chris, that gives me an idea of what they are looking for.

[RodBurNeR]

Jan 20, 2010 20:10:42 GMT -5 jeff said:

Exotic engines/suspensions, etc... I know that some builders were using Jag rear ends at some point in 1:1, but was wondering how the members felt about say a mid sixties Ferrari v12 in an otherwise trakable ride. I am begining to put together a plan for a 34 ford P/U with the engine from the revell Ferrari gto.

I bet some guys would love to see that, but it's not really traditional is it? Just my opinion..but I don't remember seeing any hot rods with high end Italian horses in them.
No matter..if ya do build it, I am interested in watching the build...are you on dpmcc forum? (can post there if you want)

[RodBurNeR]

Jan 20, 2010 20:48:28 GMT -5 jeff said:

I thought I remembered Lyle posting something similar a while back... You gotta remember that most of what we build here is not "traditional" at all. We stick to a look for sure, but most of what gets shown here was not being done in 1:1 at the time.
With that said I do agree, which is why I took the time to run it up the flagpole and not just show it. You can catch it on Automodelling (for when you accidentally build something non-TRaKable). Thanks Bob.

I hope you are not taking what I said wrong? I don't remember Lyle posting something like that..but I could have missed it and my memory is not the best. I am a member on automodelling, but don't get on there much lately...it's a time issue is all.
I will watch for it on James' site.
By the way, I know that a lot of things on here are not completely traditional...but they fit into the guidelines and I don't have a prob with that. I don't have a prob with your project either....what I am afraid of is people getting the wrong idea about this place and then when I say it's not TRaKable, I get "well so and so did it"...I just want to keep peace and try to stay with the idea at heart is all. I hope you know I mean well.

[jeff]

I do, and I spend 90% of my online time here. And like most I appreciate the tight guidlines. It keeps the forum from being like the rest, and I reeally have no problem with your answer. If and when the build commences I will link to it from trak.

[noname]

After reading some more posts I find it a little harder to determine what is TRaKable and what is not. The term Hot Rod itself is used somewhat loosely though isn't it? We all think of a traditional Hot Rod as 32 Ford with a hopped up engine and less the fenders. That is like the quintessential Hot Rod. But there are many other versions of a Hot Rod as well. A 29 Ford circa 1950 with a hopped up 4 cyl. to me is still a Hot Rod. Most people consider a Gasser to be a Hot Rod ( another term thrown around quite loosely ). What if it doesn't have a straight axle and aftermarket wheels? What about a 58 Impala with a bored out 348 with multi carbs? Technically it is a Hot Rod as it is modified to go faster even though it may look fairly stock. What about a 67 Camaro with a 427 shoved in there?

On the other hand purhaps a AWB or flip top funny car is beyond Hot Rod. Does a Hot Rod have to be driven on the street to be a Hot Rod? So I'm asking the question , what is a Hot Rod? In the end as far as this site goes it is up to Bob to decide what can be shown here as it is his site. I'd just like to know what people here want to see icluding Bob. By Hot Rod are we talking mostly traditional coupes etc.? Are we talking the cars as seen in Traditional Rod and Kustom for example?

What I like about this site is it's commitment to old school Hot Rods and period correctness. I just don't want to display anything that people don't want to see. Know what I mean.

[Koolkat]

I'm only addressing hot rods. I don't have the say, Bob does.

With that said, I think the normally accepted definition of a hot rod is a 1948 and earlier manufacture, and to be TRAKable, parts must be pre-70. In addition, I think it is the look. You can have a 32 Ford with pre-70 parts, and it might be a STREET rod. Paint, wheels, and tires can make all the difference.

Technically, I don't think anything else is really widely considered as a hot rod. With that said, about the 58 Chevy with a multi carb 348 - is that a hot rod? They were available stock with those components. Do I consider it a hot rod. Yes, in the WIDER looser sense, I do, if it had one little modification, such as lowered in the front, minor custom paint, or a tube grille.

I think somebody mentioned a lot of models here are not truly representative of old style hot rods (or customs). I think that's true. A Chezoom roof is not really technically TRAKable in my mind, and I generally don't care for contemporary style customs, however I think it's a small loophole, that can go either way. I believe it is the LOOK that is important, but that's not necessarily meaning something is TRAKable.

KAHRM is a little wider interpretation of my own views, but everything in it won't necessarily be TRAKable, and is subject to my own likes and dislikes and biases.

As far as getting down to the nitty gritty and determining exact detailed requirements for being TRAKable, I personally don't believe that's possible. I think almost all of us have an IDEA of TRAKablity - some will think stringently to the gnat's patootie, and others will think more broadly. But in the end, that's what the 'Is this TRAKable?' thread is for. It may never be totally consistent, as it is a case by case basis, which will vary a little. Call up the local city or county with a question, and you will get varying answers depending upon who answers the phone. That's life. We never will have total consistency and fairness in life. It is good that here at TRAK that we have reasonble people to make similar judgement calls, and we need to respect those calls, even if it means our model may be considered 'non-TRAKable'.

Some contemporary so-called 'traditional' magazines have things in them that really aren't...full body tats, Betty Page haircuts, rat rods, etc.

I don't think you will get a straight to the point answer on your questions. To me, splitting hairs is not good. I think the best guideline is to go back into the archives and see what others have posted and not try to stretch the envelope. If it's different than what's been posted before, then it's best to ask/post right here and get an answer from Bob or the forum moderators.

Just because something may not fit TRAK requirements doesn't mean we don't want to see it. The Drastic Plastic forum is for those models, a lot more general in nature.

[noname]

Thanks for that Koolkat. The term Hot Rod means alot of different things to alot of different people. Thats why I thought I should ask what everyone here thinks the term refers to. I'm getting a better idea of what to show here by looking through the archives.

Because the term can have so many meanings, I'd like to hear what others thoughts are on the term "hot rod".

[Koolkat]

Me too! What I see as a rusty basic hot rod, to me it's a rat rod. What others may think of as a rat rod may be those weirdo exaggerated builds. As Bob once put it, using a railroad tie for a front bumper, lol.

Is a Plymouth Prowler a hot rod? I don't think so, not even a street rod. I rode in a Prowler, and it's like riding in a newer Honda. Same with a PT Cruiser. They have some retro styling, and that's it. My V-6 Camry would outrun either one of them, I think, and there's NO way it'd be a hot rod or TRAKable.

I know it took me quite awhile to get the feeling of TRAKability here too!

I'm surprise nobody has chimed in on this yet.

My own PERSONAL idea of what's traditional is because of my age. To me, it would need to be pre-1965 to be truly traditional style. Something newer might be still TRAKable, however. Goodguys only allowed the 1948 and earlier for years, but after fifties cars formed their own organizations and shows (like KKOA and West Coast Kustoms), then Goodguys developed their sliding cut off dates so as not to miss that 'piece of the pie'.

To me (only) a Junior Johnson 1959 Chevy NASCAR would be Trakable, or 'traditional' feel anyway. Would a Fred Lorenzen 1965 Ford NASCAR Galaxie be Trakable? I'm not sure. To me, it'd be right on the edge....same with the AMT Street Freaks series (Novas, Mustangs, etc.). To me it's not traditonal, but we see them here. It's usually getting down to things like tires and wheels?

It reminds me of years ago when people talked about classic cars. Classic cars term only applied pretty much to cars of the thirties like Dusenbergs and Cords. Today, it's used for almost everything including seventies muscle cars.

I don't think it matters what we call it. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Here, it only matters if it is TRAKable. I may not be able to define pornography, but I sure know it when I see it?

Just my opinion, but when something is borderline, I say 'let it pass', but that's not my call. And Bob and the moderators are 'the boss', and I support them in whatever their decisions are whether it fits in with my ideas/opinions or not.

[noname]

Personally myself, I'm mostly into old school drag cars. Dry lake racers aren't a whole lot different in my opinion. As far as hot rods go, I like the idea of a guy putting together a car with different parts, buy only what he can afford , driving it to school or work through the week and racing it at the strip or dry lake on the weekends. I have this thing against cars that just sit there looking pretty. A hot rod is made to be driven and to go fast. I don't quite get the concept of a trailer queen. The idea of someone picking up a catalogue and picking out all the fancy chrome bits and peices just doesn't sit well with me. Thats just my opinion of course.

I've learned quite a bit about drag racing in the 50's and 60's and am in awe of the ingenuity of folks during that period. Some of the meanest looking rigs ever were built during those two decades. And to be honest a hot rod looses it's appeal if it isn't used. No matter how good it looks. In other words, a real hot rod to me is meant to be raced and abused. But I'm not sure if a race car by definition is even considered a hot rod if it's not driven on the street.

Koolkat, you mentioned that the Goodguys decided on 1948 vehicle or older. I wonder how they determined that? Think of hot rod magazine. They still continue showing what I guess is suppose to be "hot rods" even today. And trust me, a nice old car with 18 inch wheels does nothing for me. But they obviously must not put a limit on year.

the Oxford English dictionary states a hot rod as; "motor vehicle modified to have extra power and speed". Not that they are any experts on the subject I'm sure. There must be a historian or someone knowledgable out there that can give a concise meaning of the term.

I just find this interesting. Again it's up to Bob as far as this site goes. I guess purhaps one could settle on the fact that there may be many different branches of the hot rod tree.

[noname]

If nobody has seen this video, have a peak and notice how the word hot rod and drag racing go together like two peas in a pod.

[Bud Ellis " Kustoms"]

Very kool video Thanks for posting ;D
Bud Ellis kustoms

[HotRodTom]

Noname, What a great question. AND, you posted it in JUST HE RIGHT SPOT!

There is no such thing as a stupid question (unless you don't ask one).

The term 'hot rod" has unfortunately, been abused and misused since it's inception back in the '50's.

"Hot Rod drag racing" was a common statement about the illegal street racing going on after the war that was applied to the boys coming back from "over there" that needed the thrill of adrenaline that they had gotten addicted to while serving in a combat theater.

I do not intend to give a history lesson, merely commenting on the questioning of what a "real" hot rod is.

Of course, everyone may, and probably does, have a different opinion on this subject. While most of us here are not really sticklers on the nitty-gritty, we generally stick to a "loose" guideline like what koolkat referenced ('pre-49 car, pre-'70 parts).

You mentioned the venerable '32 with a hopped up banger motor. THAT would be considered a hot rod as long as it didn't have a barge-full of billet on it (again, pre-70's parts. Billet came into fashion in the late 80's/early '90's).

The Camaro you mentioned could be considered a hot rod in the traditional sense of the term of a modified motor in a car to make it perform better than stock, however, (here at least) Camaros are viewed more as a muscle car (although a few have been posted as drag cars. There is that loose interpretation of the "rules" thing again).

The gist of this forum is to stay to the "traditional" sense of the hot rod and custom (or Kustom, there IS a difference, but that is a different discussion. The "sewer dwelling mammal rod" is a style of build that has been periodically allowed here (n either all out RR form or as a "weathered rod". I myself have built a couple that have been posted here such as "Hot Tamale" that could be considered by some as a RR.

The point that I am getting at is that "back in the day", kids were building with what was available, on the funds that they had, with the skills that they had. Some cars were absolute ingenuity, others were absolute DEATHTRAPS. The mere idea of rust was disgusting then and a sign of shoddy craftsmanship and neglect. Unlike the RR's of today, where rust seems to be a badge of honor and actually PURSUED for the patina.

Some view the modern RR movement as making a Van Gogh rendition with Crayons. Or doing Beethoven's 5th in "Crunk" style. The basic premise is there, but the execution may produced radically different results than the original inspiration.

There are the "textbook" examples like the Doane Spencer Roadster, or Gray Baskervilles roadster (long standing example of holding to tradition of the open roadster when they weren't considered "cool") or the Tom McMullen roadster. If you compare all three of these '32 Ford roadsters, there is no single component between them other than the base is a '32 Ford roadster. HOWEVER, between each of them, there is a FLAVOR, or PERSONA about them. Gray started working on his roadster before 1965 so a lot of the parts were pre-70, and stayed with the car until after his death. The McMullen roadster is relatively unchanged since it was first built (with the exception of the motor upgrades from a single 4-barrel carb, to fuel injection for a while, to a blown motor, a V-6 in the '70's, and even a turbo motor for very short stint) The DS roadster has been another relatively unchanged icon.

Again, I am not attempting to give a history lesson, just discussing the different styles within a style. Some folks consider a '40 Ford with a Caddy 331 mill and a La Salle tranny a "hot rod", while others would say a '57 Chevy Bel-Air with a 327 from a '63 Vette and 4-on-the-floor as a "hot rod", while still others would say that a '59 Studebaker pickup with a '55 De Soto Red Ram Hemi (I think I got that right...) as a "hot rod".

It really boils down to more than just the particular car. It is the collective whole of the car that determines the "style". A study in styles of different eras is always a good start to see what is what. Looking at the differences between a '40's/'50's/'60's rod, one will see either subtle or glaring differences. One can tell a rod built in 1955 and 2005 usually by looking at paint, wheels, tires, interior, billet or lack there-of, etc.


I have rambled on and on and probably lost most of the gentle readers along the way, but hopefully I have given you another insight or view on MY side of what a "hot rod" is. I always like to see the questions of "how do you?" or "what makes a..." and then see how folks respond to it.

We are a big family here on TRAK, and sometimes we might disagree on little things. A discussion was had a long time ago (back in 2008, actually) about the definition of "Tradition". In essence, it is in keeping with the IDEA, but not necessarily strictly adhering to a set of rules. Traditions (over time) may change, such as Christmas traditions, or shipbuilding traditions, etc. We no longer place a British Crown (coin) under the main-mast of every ship we build (because that is no longer the currency of the realm, now is it...) Things, over time, change.

Maybe sometime in the future, our successors will look back at all this squabble and wonder why we quarreled over something so trivial as how a car was constructed. As long as they are being built (in steel or in scale) the world is a better place because of it.

[Bud Ellis " Kustoms"]

Very well Put Tom ;D

Bud Ellis Kustoms

[Koolkat]

I agree Tom.

But....Chrysler (Firepower), DeSoto (FireDome) and Dodge (Red Ram) ...

[ChrisV]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Tom!